Why doesn't CFEclipse let me work, how I did in HomeSite, CFStudio or Dreamweaver?

2008 February 16
by Big Mad Kev

This question keeps coming up, Why doesn't CFEclipse do this, or that. I can't start to use CFEclipse full time till it allows me to do this or that.

Well, my answer to this is: How come there are already a great number of CF Developers using CFEclipse without a problem? The reason: they changed the way they developed to fit with CFEclipse.

Why did they do that?

Eclipse allows you to develop your applications from one IDE, everything under one roof. DB Support, CF Coding Support, HTML, Ajax and CSS Support why have 4/5 Applications open when you can have one.
The way they were developing was bad, The original development tools, and CF it self in the early days allowed us all to use Bad Practices and many CF Developers seem to have stuck to this.

What do I mean by Bad Practices

I've heard Developers say with pride that they edit code on Live servers, my normal response to that is, oh so your new to development? Then you hear “no, I'm a senior developer and I've been working with CF for over 4 years”. WTF!!!!!!!!!!!

OK I'm no angel, I've edited code on a live server, and I've stopped a whole site from functioning, but not for a while now people! I've seen the light, and so should you. If you think editing code on a live server is cutting-edge then sorry but it's time you left the Developer scene. OK I don't mean to be harsh but really it's not hard to change the way you develop and place some process in to your workflow, even if you are a Single Developer. At the end of the day, the time spent setting up at least two environments other then your live environment, and the time you spend deploying code to these environments, will far out way the time you spend fire fighting your live application, and give you more free time.

Trust me, I've been there and done it and now I feel a free man!

So what are these two environments?

That would be a local development environment, and an integration environment. These at the very least will help you identify faulty code, once you have moved code from local to integration you will find the files you forgot about and see the hard coded variables you've left in your code (Again a bad practice but as you do this you will stop it and learn).

Once you start the ball rolling, trust me you will want to move faster and faster, into using Unit Testing, SVN, Ant and Bug Tracking. Even if you are a single developer you never know when you will need to expand to another developer and another and another. So if you put the ground work in now, life will be easy.

Just remember CFEclipse is a great tool, yes it doesn't have all the features that HomeSite , CF Studio or Dreamweaver has but then CFEclipse has a few that they don't either like the Framework Explorer and great SVN Integration (OK More of an Eclipse thing then CFEclipse) I guess I will have to go over using CFEclipse in my Tutorials in Vision over the next few weeks to show why you should use it, why you should drop your old bad practices and come join the masses and find more time to yourself

At the very least come to Scotch on the Rocks 2008 and learn from the best, and ask the questions that just haven't been answered that you feel embarrassed to ask on the open net.  

Be the Best, Be at Scotch

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11 Responses leave one →
  1. Steve Bryant
    Feb 17, 2008 at 4:20 AM

    Definitely good points. I am a CFEclipse convert. It did take me some take to make the transition (mostly learning new keyboard shortcuts). Even so, I think Mark Kruger gives a good alternate viewpoint: http://www.coldfusionmuse.com/index.cfm/2008/1/18/Coldfusion.IDE.projects.vs.workorders

  1. snu
    snu PERMALINK
    Feb 17, 2008 at 9:12 AM

    you are an idiot.

  1. Big Mad Kev
    Feb 17, 2008 at 9:28 AM

    SNU, How mature, and your reasoning for the comment?

  1. Toby Tremayne
    Feb 17, 2008 at 11:50 AM

    Totally agree Kev! Disparate development environments, staging, test builds and source control. If you're not across the reasons for all this you need to learn.

  1. sp
    Feb 17, 2008 at 9:59 PM

    Blasphemy! I tried CFEclipse for a while, I started to realize I spent more time using the mouse, clicking, and navigating then I was actually Coding.

  1. Big Mad Kev
    Feb 17, 2008 at 10:20 PM

    sp, I'm a Keyboard person myself and don't find that, what sort of issues do you find with it?

  1. Stephen Moretti
    Feb 18, 2008 at 4:04 PM

    @sp: You need to take a look at the short key preferences for CFEclipse and Eclipse in general. Also, code snippets and the short cut code for these should help speed up your coding. I've also recently discovered the delights of working sets to help with managing all the projects that I have to flick through on a daily basis. Only thing I miss from Homesite/CFStudio is the code sweeper. The staple of subclipse/subversive, Mylyn, XMLBuddy, Aptana and CFEclipse pretty much cover everything I need to do on a coding day.

  1. Chris Dawes
    Chris Dawes PERMALINK
    Feb 19, 2008 at 4:28 AM

    What a load of hot air, my ide is better than yours because {insert bollocks here}. Did you even address the topic before your conclusion? Have some of my bollocks: 1) Eclpise's implementation of SVN is flakey (or should I say subclipse). I wouldn't trust it with a real project. I've seen it fail too many times and screw things up. 2) The reason developers who use Ecplise have to change their style is because they have to GIVE UP features that make coding easier and quicker to get tools that really are un-necessary. It's actually less of a leap to Dreamweaver, than to eclipse and with SVN/CVS support in the next version, and a developer version (amongst other versions) on the way, it looks like a better environment. 3) As fr forameworks... Who uses Mach-II or fusebox... lots of people who go to cf conferences, not many others. I think I've worked in two companies in eight years that used one of the main frameworks, there's a lot of hype. Most people use their own internal framework, even today. 4) Ecplise has the worst usability an app has ever seen, that is BAD PRACTICE right there. I'd rather use windows command line interface than ecplise! 5) What does editing code on live server have to do with IDE's? Ecplise does not improve your coding skills. How absurd!

  1. Chris Dawes
    Chris Dawes PERMALINK
    Feb 19, 2008 at 4:39 AM

    Also: Dreamweaver Extensions allow you to use the one ide for your apps: (which is the way eclipse does) 1) SVN support that's stable and fully integrated http://www.dreamweaver-extensions.net/index.php/SVN-for-Dreamweaver--Windows-and-Macintosh/ 2) Air IDE http://labs.adobe.com/wiki/index.php/AIR:Dreamweaver_CS3_Extension 4) Extjs IDE (with code hints) http://www.spket.com/dreamweaver-extension.html and I'm just getting started...

  1. Big Mad Kev
    Feb 19, 2008 at 9:23 AM

    Fair Comment there Chris, I guess I really mixed two topics in one there and never finished either. I really can't remember any features of Homsite that I now miss. And I've never used Dreamweaver other then for quick WYSINWYG layout, since the MX release I've just gone off it as it's bloat ware, ok Eclipse is a beast but I guess it's a developer choice. If your suited to a tool then great, but I think if a tool makes it too easy to do something that is just dam wrong in any environment then things will never change. RDS is great in a Developer Environment, but how many SysAdmins know to turn it off in production. At the end of the day editing code on a live environment is WRONG, and I feel dreamweaver makes it too easy to do, as do many other tools ;) Not say eclipse doesn't. As for Dreamweaver Getting SVN in the next release HELLO welcome to the real world, who in their right mind thinks VSS is source Control. I use the Subversive Plugin for Eclipse and long as you RTFM it's fine. Bottom line is if you don't know how SVN works then there is you issue. BTW Thanks for your comments Chris, always good to see if from the other side.

  1. Stephen Moretti
    Feb 19, 2008 at 9:41 AM

    @Chris Dawes 1) Subclipse and Subversive have come along way since you used them obviously - they both have their flaws but they are both very stable and do exactly what they are supposed to. They both use the same set of API libraries for SVN that are all very well used. 2) As I previously mentioned previously the only feature that is missing from eclipse/cfeclipse is code sweeper. The only major change that developer should get used to is organising their development using project (called sites in DW) rather than using the file explorer. If you really want to hack about with live files then there is FTP functionality in eclipse and the CF8 plugins from Adobe provide RDS access. 3) While I agree that not everyone uses one of the main frameworks and many have their own frameworks. The Framework explorer is not the only function in eclipse/cfeclipse. I don't use the framework explorer, but I do use the code outline, the method view, the code snippet tree and snipex server, mylyn integration with my chosen bug, svn integration, TO DO task lists, problem view panel and so on.... 4) Eclipse 3.2 is problematic in its usability. 3.3 is much nicer and to be honest eclipse is only as usable as you make it. Configure the layout and keyboard short cuts to the way you want to use it. 5) Homesite and Dreamweaver both allow you immediate and direct access to files on a live server either via FTP or RDS. Eclipse, while having various FTP and RDS plugins, does not make this functionality immediately available. It doesn't make you a better developer, but it does help to prevent you using really bad practices. Kev's example bad practice is only one example. 6) SVN support that's stable and fully integrated, oh and free: http://www.polarion.org/index.php?page=download&project=subversive 7) AIR IDE : http://www.aptana.com/air/ 8) AJAX integration : http://www.aptana.com/products covers JQuery, Ext and more, as well as their recently added Jaxer Server. I've been a web applications developer since the early 90's and I've gone through Notepad and its ilk, cfstudio, homesite, dreamweaver, HotMeTaL and more. Dreamweaver is a great product, but way too weighty for my development requirements or environment and I find that its not that usable unless I'm doing design work.

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